Health care is always greener on the other side
July 10, 2007Susan Ager of the Detroit Free Press writes another one of these stomach churning sagas about how healthcare is so much better in XXX country than in the US. This time it is about Denmark in Why the Danes are so happy, even when they’re sick.
Let’s just start with the subtitle first before I get into here story.
Healthcare is free, but it comes with a price — high taxes.
Therein lies both the Lie and the Truth that supporters of socialized healthcare rarely tell you. It is not free. Danes pay far more for healthcare than American’s due, we just happen to have fallen to a bait and switch job, the oldest con in the book. It’s like an offer from a late night infomercial. “If you call now, we will throw in this set of 20 ginzu steak knives absolutely FREE!” Yipee!
OK that over with. Go read her article and come back here. She was very lucky and I will explain so when you come back…
So Susan was taken in at an ER in a suburban neighborhood because of an emergency. I am glad they admitted here as it seems to be on the whim of the staff. A friend of ours from Nicaragua was in Denmark for 2 months with her Danish boyfriend while he was finishing his dissertation. She had a bicycle accident and broke her nose and various other parts of her face. The first 2 emergency rooms would not accept her as she did not have the Danish yellow insurance card. At the 3rd one they only accepted her because her boyfriend and other people waiting to be seen kicked up a fuss.
Nobody ever asked for a credit card. Nobody asked for an insurance card. Nobody asked for my address.
My guess is that the hospitals are not setup to charge anyone but the Danish tax payer, so if you are lucky enough to be let in you are probably safe to escape payment (unfortunately the Danish taxpayer is not so lucky).
As a foreigner you would normally have to pay about DKK500 (~US$90) for a consultation at a doctor.
Now this was an emergency, but what are the realities of the Danish healthcare system for actual Danish taxpaying residents?
- Long waiting lists of often several months to see a specialist
- Waiting lists for any kind of procedure
Pray that you don’t get breast cancer, due to waiting lists the survival rate in Denmark is amongst the lowest in Europe. When this came out last year in the press it finally became a scandal, but I don’t think they have done anything to improve it. Their patch is to send cancer patients who are already in enough stress abroad for treatment.
With the exception of a few really good doctors and nurses, most in the “business” in Denmark are extremely rude and paternalistic. They don’t listen to your description of what you have, nor do they do sufficient tests. Susan seems to have had a good doctor. I have had one or two, but most have been horrible.
While not directly related to FREE healthcare I think this is symptomatic of it. The way doctors and nurses do injections in Denmark vs the US is incredible. In Denmark they jab the syringe into you as hard and fast as they can and it hurts and often leaves a bruise. This is the way it is taught.
In the US they gently place the syringe on your skin and move it slowly in (I never feel it). This is also how they do it in Panama. I think this comes down to the fact that to the Danish medical system we are but cattle that must remain grateful that they are taking the time out of their busy schedule to inject you. I am not saying that this is is actual intentional behaviour, but more of a subconscious behavior that really shows how the system work.
Finally lets just eradicate her final collection of myths:
It’s true Danes pay among the highest taxes in the world. But their system provides not only free health care but free long-term care, including 24/7 home care, and generous unemployment and education benefits.
I already dealt with the free ginzu knives above, but free 24/7 home care? Hardly. They will come by once a day for an hour or so. If you need 24/7 care you are sent off to the old peoples home, regardless of age. When this happened to my grandparents they were split up and very unhappy.
The Danish school system is also failing big time. All aspects really of the famous Danish wellfare system is failing. At the last election the bad quality of public services was the number one issue. Of course no one is really serious enough about fixing to suggest that maybe the government shouldn’t be providing these services in the first place.
I’m glad Susan was treated well, but as I said she was lucky. Now let’s hope all of these articles about the glories of socialized healthcare (as well as that new movie by that director I won’t mention) doesn’t con enough American’s with it’s bait and switch.
Comments:
Thank you, Pelle.
Posted by: Will Kamishlian at July 10, 2007 09:13 PM
Well, Pelle, it surely is a blessing for you to be in the US. It must be pure Guantanomo for you to have visited the Danish healthcare system.
Sure we have the highest tax in the world, but noone will place you on a bench outside the ER, because of lack of insurance.
If I was a physian or a nurse, meeting the attitude you display here, I would surely stab the syringe into you as painfully as I could.
The waiting lists that have accumulated in the Danish healthcare system, is a result of pressure from people like you, irresponsibly trying to implement American conditions to Denmark.
It is obvious that you know nothing about the healthcare system here.
Home care is 24/7 for those who need that. Some get up to 4 visits a day. Others, who are better of, may only need 1 - 2 visits. But it's true. This is also dimishing, again thanks to the egocentrics who, by the way, are the worst wailers when they (you?) themselves are in need of help.
Sorry about your grandparents, but you only have yourself and your kind to thank.
Best regards
Posted by: Allan Thuno at August 18, 2007 05:48 PM
Allan
Did you read through what you just posted here? Are you saying that political dissenters deserve torture and death? Thats what I'm getting from your comment. Does this mean that the Danish Social Cleptocracy has reached the same level as Stalin's Soviet Union in the 30's. I certainly hope not.
Very few places in the world and certainly not the US are uninsured ER patients left on stretchers outside the ER. However our friend from Nicaragua certainly wasn't left on a stretcher outside the ER, but was definitely kicked out of several Copenhagen ERs.
I would also dare to say that the real responsibility of the waiting lists are people who refuse to look and learn from other countries and dogmatically follow a failed ideology rather than looking at the facts. Killing the messenger rather than learning from the message I'm afraid again brings us back to the policies of our friendly Soviet leader from the 30ies.
Posted by: Pelle at August 19, 2007 10:51 PM
Look. The generel understanding here, of what you have posted, is : "Poor guy, he had a bad experience with a syringe, and that's the fault of the entire Danish healthcare system".
No, I'm not saying that political dissenters deserve torture and death, that's you, saying that, bending my words totally out of shape.
Being kicked out of an ER can have a number of reasons, of which none are acceptable, except violence. Was there violence ? It could have been nothing more than inexperienced staff. The demand for cheap labour is also cried out in Denmark, resulting in a lot of incompetence. But hey, money is saved.
And NO, to your last comment. There is no failed ideologi here. There is human compassion, and national solidarity, on which our healthcare system is built. When it is said that it is "free", it just means that you can be treated without someone hanging on your back, demanding to see valid insurance. We pay for it by way of taxes, and we do it gladly, so noone...NO ONE...is economically ruined because of health issues.
We even pay for foreign guests, with a smile, even knowing that that individual most likely will, like you, mock the system.By the way. Most people mocking our system, here and abroad, have never been in need of assistance, from same system.
Best regards
Posted by: Allan Thuno at August 20, 2007 05:14 AM
Allan
My point of this article is that health care is not perfect in Denmark. My point is that there are many small things that you notice in the Danish health care system once you've been exposed to health care systems else where in the world that are symptomatic of the system and its funding method.
I and close family members have been a user of the health care systems public and private in Denmark, the US, the UK, Panama, Argentina, Netherlands Antilles, France and Greece. I don't like ranking them, but the most nationalized of all of these systems is the Danish and that is also where I have had the worst treatment.
I'm not saying that Danish doctors are bad. My wife and I have been treated by great doctors in Denmark. The problem is that in Denmark, with the UK a close second you are pretty much treated by the system as a whole as a little piggie to be hearded around and be happy or shut up.
Their is very little room for the human being in this system. Thus many doctors and nurses treat you as not much more than a record in their billing system to the state. Individual private doctors, farmacies as well as hospitals in Denmark model their whole business model on the billing structure to the state and not on what their patients need. Their patients are patients but not customers.
And who can blame the doctors, this is the only business model available to them in Denmark.
Here in the US many doctors are complaining about similar rigid systems set up by the insurance companies. The difference is that here the doctors and patients have a choice, which is non existant in Denmark. Thus places like SF On Call http://www.sfoncall.com can offer very innovative patient focused services.
About our Nicaraguan friend, no there was no violence however there was a lot of blood all over her face and clothes. It was only when other ER patients started pleading with the staff that she was treated.
If that happened in the US, there would be lawyers lined up ready to sue the bastard hospital to hell.
Foreign guests like my wife before she got her residency have to pay between DKK400-600 ($80-100) depending on the doctor they go to. Foreign prescriptions are not accepted, so you have to pay a minimum DKK400 on top of the medicine, if that's all you need.
I am absolutely convinced that the failure of the Danish health care system (and it IS a failure) is one of a failed ideology. This is not about human compassion and national solidarity, but about one group of peoples definition of what is human compassion and national solidarity.
You might also want to remember that democracies are based on free debate and disagreement. Totalitarian states on the other hand are based on enforced national unity with no disagreement, so when you state that it is the fault of us non believers that your system has failed keep that little thought in mind. Unless you want people to draw parallels between you and totalitarian ideologies.
The US system is not good, but at least you have the chance and opportunity to do something about it yourself, which is a freedom the democrats might soon take away from us. Which is also why I hate it when fantasies about the Scandinavian paradise get quoted with very little criticism in the US.
Posted by: Pelle at August 24, 2007 02:38 PM
